Curse

coolsti · Sep 27, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

For my 2 cents worth, I have absolutely no respect for runners. Anyone who seems to be so desperate for money in this game and therefore needs to spend hours running people (or standing around Lions selling chest drops, etc. etc.) for hours on end, should maybe find a new game to play. What you need the money for? More 15K armor that doesn't give you any better stats?

The biggest thing I have against runners is that they help corrupt the natural story line of the game, by giving people a short cut to areas of the map where they don't yet deserve to be. When I get into a party to do a quest or mission, I would like to have my party members be sort of on a par with me. Not some low level who got run through the game, and not some low level wearing super Droknars armor.

This game has some definite drawbacks, one of them being that it is too easy to transfer high level weapons and money from your first characters to your lower level characters. The sweetest part of this game for me was playing my very first character, where every new quest was a struggle, and every new weapon found (also in low level areas) was a find! Another definite drawback is that you can be run through the game.

What I think would be great for the PVE part of this game is for Anet to alter the game such that you cannot do a new mission or quest until your character has successfully completed all the previous missions and quests in the story line. Add to that a level/quest/experience limit on the use of weapons and armor. This would not block high level characters from coming to low level areas to help out (which in itself, in my opinion, is a real annoyance) but would effectively force PVE players to follow the game as it was designed. Runners, of course, would then be out of business.

MaglorD · Sep 27, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaPe

Well, I certainly have no respect for runners. Sorry, that's how I am. Sure you can claim that you got bored with your 69th character and just want to get good stuff faster - but I still don't like people who do it, both runners and those who pay for it.
Bet I'm not the only one.

Nope, I'm with you. There is simply no need for runners. By playing the game going the normal route, it does not take that long to complete it and you get all the skills from quests etc. If you really cannot stand pugs, just use henchies...they are more than competent.

Imagine if everyone gets run, then we might as well throw out the whole game except for droknars forge(for the armor), uw/fow(for farming and armor), sf/gf(for the green items) and pvp areas since nobody would be doing any missions. Then all you have left are the fashion police who spend all their time farming for ectos and shards to buy their fow armor and strut around in town...how boring can they get?

Why does it always boil down to materialism, ie items and money??? I guess it's all those ppl from other mmorpgs trying to import their playing style to gw.

One and Two · Sep 27, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

are you still playing the game the first time through?

Sample Attack · Sep 27, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

My success rate Forge run is 5/9 , My failure rate include not having proper skill "Charge , Mending etc......" took me 5 tries to find a skill cap group to cap "Charge" , tonite friend of mine did it in 2 min range... After I get all the skillz I need, I never fail once (Knock on the wood) ..
I ran for guildies and Allied Guild members, charge 1k or lower to non guildies (Forge) , Dessert area , I do for 200 gold, even then some people didn't pay me ...
"OFF Topic"
Early Exp PVP , 3 W/Mo (one of them is me), against 1 W/R everybody else left...
He kept runnning around the circle , and we couldn't kill him.
I did get an offer , Run Service 100 k From Becon Perch to Henge of Denravi ""
I didn't have the right skillz and not enf exp atm.... Now ! I'm ready .... : D

coolsti · Sep 27, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I guess sort of as an answer to One and Two (if that was the question) ...

I am playing my 3rd and 4th characters now, and for all characters I have played the entire game, with no running, doing all the quests and missions, trying to avoid parties with high levels who are only there to help out. And I am still enjoying it immensely. The only thing I do (but regret) is transfer better weapons from my higher level characters.

And the reason why I still am enjoying the game this way is because each of my character classes is played so differently due to their different skills. So although the game and missions and quests are the same, the way I play the game is completely different. I also enjoy the human interaction with good party members (when they are found), and this aspect of the game can be found by doing the very same quests over and over again, if you like, with different groups.

Maybe the game is not so boring to me on the 3rd and 4th time through because I play the game tactically according to the profession of my character. I mean, I don't play my elementalist or my Monk/Necro like a warrior, like I see a lot of others do.

Sagius Truthbarron · Sep 27, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

The fact is, most people don't know what their aggro circle is for. They don't care about dodging past things. When they run with you they WILL bring everything that you didn't aggro with you.

Sure, they have some uses when they stop and tank the mob for the 1-5 seconds untill they die. Or if you can get them to be attacked first.

I can't say it's perticularly easy to Smite/Remove Hex the Crippling Anguish, Phantasmal, and such that just got put on you by the 3 mobs of Heritics that just got aggroed, and then sprint+charge past the wall of 5 people that are ahead of you that just absorbed your charge.

And when people start to get a bit ahead of me in the start with their ranger runner skills that they plopped on, as the runner I feel obligated to get ahead of them. I didn't ask them to run with me. Most of the time when I start a run I say "If you want to run, take the other route".

I don't see how you could call someone a bad runner becuase they have a hard time coping with a train of idiot Mo/W, R/mo, W/mo that just used their speed+ skills to get ahead of and then body-block them.

badd · Sep 27, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

i dont get the people who give free runs ALL the time, i dont mind if ur test running or if its like a run from LA to d'ale or forge to ice or pledge, but if its like toa or beacon to kryta, it just ruins buisness.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 27, 2005, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

I am playing my 3rd and 4th characters now, and for all characters I have played the entire game, with no running, doing all the quests and missions, trying to avoid parties with high levels who are only there to help out. And I am still enjoying it immensely. The only thing I do (but regret) is transfer better weapons from my higher level characters.

It's exactly the same for me (right down to "3rd and 4rth characters").

Quote:

Maybe the game is not so boring to me on the 3rd and 4th time through because I play the game tactically according to the profession of my character.

My theory, for what little it's worth, is that the game isn't boring for you and me on our third and fourth run, because we actually PLAY THE GAME.
People who run spoil the game for themselves, IMO. They skip all challenges and get max armor & weapons making the game extremely easy, so of course the game is boring for them!

But OK, there are some quests I will skip this time (like "Deserters" in old Ascalon), and I'm in favor of people running if they want to. As long as they then don't bitch & moan about the PvE being short or boring, that is.

KaPe · Sep 27, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by One and Two

are you still playing the game the first time through?

Maybe you should make character with different profession 2nd time? Difference betwen, say, Axe and Sword warrior are minimal and would certainly bore someone to death if they had to play everything again with only couple of different skills. I made my 2nd char Mesmer, and 3rd Ele(but Water ele

) and I played it normally. I prefer challenge, than having forge armor against char

Really, I saw someone use PUGs as reason for doing so - "They are so bad, that I have to use best armor for compensation". That's pretty bad excuse and he/she knows it. Maybe it should go "I can't find good group, so I need best armor for soloing". Or maybe they simply want to make monk farmer faster, hm?

Dax · Sep 27, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus

*Random Off-Topic* I hate sarcasm with a passion, its so classless

Actually I try to address all points in a post when I respond. I can't help it if they (the respondee) are off topic.

Sarcasm is a way for me to show a distaste with a point of view with out resorting to name calling and other adolescent things people do.

BTW the definition of classless is:
1. Lacking social or economic distinctions of class: a classless society.
2. Belonging to no particular social or economic class.

I'm not sure how this relates to sarcasm, but I get your drift.

And having said that I've never had any respect for runners, even if it takes skill.

See? I stayed on topic and addressed all your points, unlike your post heheh sorry I couldn't resist.

Pyrea · Sep 27, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Personally I think that runners provide a very good service.

Here's my story.

The first character I created, I did every single quest (in pre searing and after), opened up my map fully in all areas and destroyed every single enemy in a given area before moving onto the next one. Repeated this technique until I completed the game fully (and I do mean fully) without getting run anywhere.

For all my characters after that, I again did all quests, cleared areas and opened map fully but just up to Traveller's Vale. Then of course, got a run to Beacons and from there to Droknars where I purchased my armour. Then I went back and basically carried on with my destroy creatures, open map etc technique and again finished the game.

Now all I need to do is complete all the Sorrow's Quests and the quests from Glint (other than Defend Droknars)

I think personally if you are playing the game for the first time, then go through it properly until the end. Not only do you make money on farming etc but you see some wonderful things throughout and also discover things in areas where you would not normally go (because no quests take you to that particular area)

I now run guild members when they need to and sometimes do the Droknar run for fun and take a few people with me for free.

All in all running is a useful tool later in the game as well.

Yesterday using my warrior, I realised I missed 1 quest in the Maguuma area where you have to meet the druids at the waterfall (you get the quest from Avatar of Dwayna at Druid's Overlook, but your region needs favour of course to make Dwayna appear)

I decided to be a bit adventurous and ran from Temple of Ages all the way to the Sage Lands and it was a lot of fun, so running for yourself and getting run is okay but just as long as you dont get run everywhere and miss all quests etc early on.

Most people get run to get armour (I know I do) at Droknars because dont really want to spend the money on upgrading armour in each new area.

What I usually do is at some point get run, get one set of armour from Droknars, go through the game and then once you get to Marnhan's Grotto and Granite Citadel then buy the nicer armour.

Anyway, the most important thing I think is to enjoy the game and learn as you go (which you will do) but only if you play the game.

I do agree that's its pointless getting run say from Ascalon to Yaks to Droknars to War Camp without doing any of the quests as obviously you will be very low level and also if you then want to join a group say to Sorrows then noone will have u and if they do u will be a hindrance more than an asset.

Anyway, thats my bit said.

Take care and enjoy

Pyrea

wsmcasey · Sep 27, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

A-net could fix the problem pretty easy with all the new players getting run to Droknars. I only have issues with first time players getting run there mostly. A-net should do something like they just did in the update with the bonus quests that you can get from Glint in Droknars where you can only take the quest if you beat the game. They could do the same thing by setting up a specific quest called "Running to Droknars" and you can only acquire the quest if you have at least ascended with 1 character. That way you still have the choice of running after you create multiple characters and bypass some of the story so you can aquire skills and armor for pvp quicker. This preserves most of the story line and game play in PvE, preserves the business for the runners, and cuts down on the newbs getting run to Droknars.

Shadowspawn X · Sep 27, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehly

Troll much?

Obviously if you don't see the value in the services runners provide, then you haven't been playing enough. Running is a double-edged sword. It's the way that experienced players get around = good. The way that poor newbies get around = bad. So it's a quick fix to a bigger problem.

I just dont see the gameplay value of running at all, the argument seems to be that if you played the storyline once you have a right to be ran which is preposterous. If you are a pvp'r needing skills unlocked in a hurry and wanting to skip storyline. Use your faction thats why it was created. And just beause you completed game with one charactor then get ran with 2nd or 50th charactor, doesnt make you fit to be in FoW/UW or SF with 2nd or 50th charactor which you havent taken the time to master. Running is just making the PvE experience wrought with bad players who dont understand their skills.

IMHO spending two or three weeks on storyline creates a solid toon for both newbies and experienced players.

However, I must say that running is fun I've been running lonars just to fill in the pixals on my map and had a blast doing it. So I can see how runners enjoy it.

Dax · Sep 27, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

A-net could fix the problem pretty easy with all the new players getting run to Droknars. I only have issues with first time players getting run there mostly. A-net should do something like they just did in the update with the bonus quests that you can get from Glint in Droknars where you can only take the quest if you beat the game. They could do the same thing by setting up a specific quest called "Running to Droknars" and you can only acquire the quest if you have at least ascended with 1 character. That way you still have the choice of running after you create multiple characters and bypass some of the story so you can aquire skills and armor for pvp quicker. This preserves most of the story line and game play in PvE, preserves the business for the runners, and cuts down on the newbs getting run to Droknars.

They could also put level requirements on armor and weapons like most MMOs.
If they did that, let people run til thier hearts desire.

wsmcasey · Sep 27, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

They could also put level requirements on armor and weapons like most MMOs.
If they did that, let people run til thier hearts desire.

That would fix the plague of asshats with Drok Armor in the Ascalon Arena. I remember the good old days when Ascalon Arena was fun to play. Now if you want to play in Ascalon Arena for fun its almost a requirement to get Drok Armor and max weapons.

MirkoTeran · Sep 27, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaPe

Well, I certainly have no respect for runners. Sorry, that's how I am. Sure you can claim that you got bored with your 69th character and just want to get good stuff faster - but I still don't like people who do it, both runners and those who pay for it.
Bet I'm not the only one.

I'm with you. Good or bad, I don't like them at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

And it effects you HOW in game? Why do you dislike something that has no bearing on your game enjoyment?

I've used runner in the past - you can't get a PUG together at Elona Reach anymore, it's all runners now. You can spam "monk lfg" all you want, but chances are, you're alone. After enduring dozens of missions like elona's reach with PUBs and having to do them over and over and over and over because PUGs SUCK at that mission - I'll gladly hand over 1K and get it over with. And I've finished the game with six diff characters/professions.

Get off your high horse.

How does it effect others? In so many ways. Having people in SF with no idea what calling is. I believe it's also one of the main reason why THK is so 'hard'. I just hate level 20 'noob'-s. We shouldn't suffer from other people being lazy.
(I apologize to 0.1% of experienced players that use runners)

Phrozenflame · Sep 28, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I ascended my Ele, after that I made a warrior and honestly I cant bother myself with trouble and make a huge circle around the world map to reach droks..I hired runners and thats it..I got my droks armor and ran to Kryta gates myself with henchies and now i'll do the game normally.

Also once u get a good runner, its good if u add them to ur friend lists so u can hire them again.

But I must say you do become inreasingly dumb with the aggro if u think Droks armor wil lsave you everytime, thats the only fault apart from Ascalon map exploit i see...given that warriors are already dumb with over-confidance, putting them in drok armors is just a crime against Humanity.

sybban · Sep 28, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

I'd like to add my useless opinion to this:

Runners: Don't see the problem, people have to make money

Scammers: Personally I like them because they point out who the idiots are. I don't think I've ever scammed, but I know I've been smart enough not to fall for any. Plain and simple, If you get scammed-you're stupid....get over it

Spammers: I think they reserved a circle in hell for them recently

Wolvenbear · Sep 28, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15

First character I created, I was a total newb and I knew it. I played through everything, getting all the quests and missions. All characters after that I generally leave Pre around level 4. I skip the Ascalon missions and simply do skill quests. Fighting/questing my way to Beacon's leaves me around level 8. Quick run to Drok's for my armor, map back to Beacon's, and continue from there. I personally enjoy the run to Drok's and appreciate every skilled runner out there. Matter of fact I'll try my best to run in front of them and aggro everything out of their way before I die.

Runners aren't the cause of noobs. Noobs simply exist. For as long as there are multiplayer games there will be noobs. I agree running new people through most of the game and not allowing them to learn the limits/boundaries of the class they are playing is a bad idea. However, newbs can be taught by good groups and further gameplay. Noobs will always plague skilled players with lack of teamwork, lack of communication, and lack of etiquette.

I don't think adding level requirements to armor will stop all running. Most toons are level 20 by the time they get to the desert missions. Map to Beacon's, run to Drok's, back to desert. It will definitely stop most of the <lvl 10's begging for gold and materials in Drok's, and probably stop most of the armor twinks.

Speaking of twinked characters: this is another ancient argument. If I am playing my max level character and find an excellent weapon for my lower level character, I still worked for it. Why shouldn't I be able to use it? (Generally I save the high level weapons in inventory until they are actually useful though.)

sybban · Sep 28, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

A lot people say the PvE is boring.

Do the entire thing solo, not skipping missions and tell me it's boring